There are two great discussions going on over the recent changes in service to ELance – one at Kathy Kerhli’s site and the other over at Jennifer’s Catalyst Blogger site. Both are great discussions on the state of job sites and how the ELance changes will affect you. What’s more, ELance’s Lorenzo Mellon-Reyes pipes in with his promise that ELance will be rethinking the restructuring and taking the complaints seriously. I think all opinions in this discussion are valid and have merit. However, I think the bigger-picture issue is this: What exactly are we paying for?
I was part of Guru at one point. I did get work from it. But when I started seeing more low-paying gigs (really low – $4 and $5/article jobs), I complained. I asked the gurus at Guru to do something about it. They did. They responded to me saying that they don’t turn down these “employers” because there are writers who bid on these jobs. Maybe so, but why the hell should I pay $74.95 every three months to weed through the same crap that’s rampant all over the Internet? The message I took away from Guru, and they didn’t have to say it directly, was that if the posters pay the fee, Guru couldn’t care less if the writers like it. They collect on both ends, so it’s not their bottom line that’s affected. No, they didn’t say it like that, but it takes no genius to translate the message.
That was the day I cancelled my membership and turned my back on paying job sites. I cannot justify spending money to find out what should be free information – a client needs my services. I remember waaaay back when I first started out in the working world. There were people whom you would hire in order to help you find a good job. Back then we considered them just one small step above scam artists. Now we hastily hand over our dollars for the chance to compete over crap jobs, and we do it with our eyes wide open. Until any of these sites can guarantee a minimum project fee, no exceptions, I’ll remain underwhelmed.
There comes a point, I think, when many writers start to outgrow these sites. For me, Elance worked for a while, first as a place to get started and then as a safety net–but I haven’t been using them often lately and these new changes have made me start to think I’d be better off focusing all my marketing efforts elsewhere.
Thanks for the link love, dear. ;o)
I outgrew Elance as a major source of income several years ago. However, I have remained simply because I can secure well-paying press release assignments there that I can’t seem to dig up on my own. I guess it’s time to start trying something new. Honestly, I no longer even read the majority of job postings listed, unless they look like good Screw You! fodder. For a long time, I’ve been discouraging newbies from relying on Elance. I now have even more reason to do so.
I agree. I do not pay for job listings. I do not pay to work. I GET PAID.
I’m with Devon… I get paid.
I love you guys! It’s true – we all get work from the sites and some of it might even be pretty decent. But there comes a time when the sites begin to hold us back financially. I reached that point about the same time I noticed the lousy jobs beginning to populate them.
I’m going to do something I’ve never done before and break something down for your guys. This past year, I ran $13,000 worth of projects through Elance. I paid $228 in subscription fees and $1,135 in transaction fees. That works out to a little over 10% in fees, much of which I just passed on to my clients anyway. Even to me, that sounds a little steep (especially in light of how much more Elance is trying to take me for next year), but it’s not terrible considering all I have to do is spend an hour per week putting in bids to get that kind of return. To earn $13,000 elsewhere (or more realistically lots of other little places), I do believe I’d have to put in way more than one hour of marketing a week. My head is spinning right now with all this Elance garbage, but what is your take on these real-life figures?
I am so tired of the constant whining from writers re: elance. It’s so ridiculous. If you doon’t want 10$ jobs then DON”T TAKE THEM. And stop with the whiny sh!t about “outgrowing elance”- that’s bull. Um, yeah, I just got a $60/ an hour job from there- are you saying your billing at more than $50 an hour??? Outgrowing my foot, I’ve been copywriting nearly 13 years now. I call BULL.
Perhaps learn to proofread your own post and you might be taken seriously.
I’m leaving your comment here. And yes, I do bill more than $50 an hour. MUCH more. Then again, I can spell.
Kathy, thanks for sharing your numbers. It seems a bit steep. The amount you get seems quite nice, but at the same time they are doing their best to charge you for it. If there’s a way to pass that on as a business expense, amen.
I do pass the transaction fees on to my clients in most cases. I haven’t (up to this point) passed on subscription fees. With the huge increase (although I’ve decided to downgrade until my remaining funds run out), I may have to raise my rates even further. And where is that going to get me? Likely losing out on even more projects to lowballers. How’s that for some additional whining, Anonymous?
I try to avoid doing math whenever possible–but your figures don’t look that different from mine, Kathy. It does cost cash, but for me it’s been worth it so far. There are several things about these changes that make me think it won’t continue to be as lucrative as before, though. A few years ago I worked mostly through Elance, but this month about a fourth of my income came from there. Many months I don’t use them at all. It may be harder for me to get work under the bare-bones subscription plan but it still might be a better deal. We’ll see how this plays out.
Aren’t your subscription fees deductible as a business expense? If so, that would make this a worthwhile venture.
To both Kathy and Jennifer – what is a typical ELance project like? Are we talking decent pay, or do they suffer the same afflication Guru suffers by “offering” the insanely low-paying jobs?
I’ve really lucky, Lori, in that I have been with Elance for eight years…going all the way back to when it was totally free. Hence, by the time I had to pay to be a part of the marketplace, I had already built up a really good reputation. That allowed me to bid more than my newer competitors and still win projects. There are some gems, and I’ve established quite a few ongoing working relationships through Elance, but there are many, many low-priced projects and, worse, projects that are also posted on Guru and other competitive sites. If I were to go through my closed projects list (those projects I bid on but didn’t win), I bet more than 50% are never awarded to anyone (on Elance anyway). I still don’t think it’s a cost-effective or smart venue for new members, ESPECIALLY writers who are already doing well for themselves elsewhere. Now more specifically answer your question, after fees, I currently make about $115 for one-page press releases, which comprise the bulk of my earnings.
Kathy, I was going to email you on this, but I seem to have lost your email addy. According to my accountant, all these fees are deductible. This includes the subscription fee and the commissions the site takes off per project.
As long as the site brings you a reasonable amount of business, which clearly it does, if you were ever audited you’d have a lot of proof that your earnings far outweigh your deductions.
You might want to talk to your accountant about it.
I deduct all my Elance fees as a business expense, and let me tell you–I hate spending the money, but when tax time rolls around I’m grateful for every deduction I can get. Elance fees are a pretty big one.
My typical Elance project is a little different than Kathy’s, as I don’t do that many press releases. I do editing and website copy (I charge anywhere from $25-per-300 words for very light editing to $100 per 300 words for original website copy) as well as quick-and-easy article writing (I charge around $25 to $50 per article and I do get a lot of these jobs, despite the fact that a lot of people are looking for $5 articles). I also do resume rewrites for around $60 each.
My prices are higher than a lot of Elance providers, and there are always the low-rate ones that undercut everybody. I have to bid a lot to get a little work, but it’s not too time consuming because I have bid templates for a variety of different jobs and I just customize them a little for each project I bid on. If I need a little extra cash at the end of the month I sit down for an hour or two and get some bids out there, and something always comes in.
I have to be honest… I have steered clear of all the bidding sites. Something about them always makes me a little uneasy; after all, it’s sometimes tough to bid on a project before you really know the full scope, don’t you think?
Having said that, I’m glad to know that some people who use them have been getting good jobs. But it sounds to me like something has imploded in the internal workings of eLance.