With the Internet world still reeling from James Chartrand’s recent confession, we’re all left wondering exactly what gender has to do with anything. But it does, doesn’t it? Whether you’re a writer or a CEO, you’re judged on many factors, gender being one of them.
Think about how many times you’ve encountered gender bias. I can think of a few. When I shopped for my car, I had a young salesperson showing me a car. He was helpful – a little too helpful. Maybe it was his inexperience talking, but he actually said to me “And look at the emblem. Isn’t that pretty?”
Was he kidding? No. He was pointing out features he thought a female would want to see. You know me – I had to say it. “Yea, that’s pretty, but what kind of torque does this deliver? What’s the top RPM on this? How many horsepower can I expect?” It was a lesson I hope stuck with him.
In a few interviews I’ve conducted, I’ve had male interview subjects talk in very basic terms, overexplaining concepts to me. I’ve had to go high-level on them before they realize this is something I understand. Why? Isn’t the fact that I’m contacting them on this subject indication that I, a girl, get it? As much as it infuriates, it saddens me.
I worked in an office where the male counterparts were paid infinitely more than the females doing the same work or higher-level work. I know this because a few of the guys boasted about their raises. Worse, one of the women in the office who was a staff writer with five years under her belt, found out the new male administrative assistant was making $5K more than she was. It was also $8K more than the previous female admin made.
While I contend that in a few cases, women simply don’t expect or ask for what they’re worth, there are plenty of cases where they’re not offered the same amount to begin with. It’s a real problem in corporate America, and one I thought wasn’t too prevalent in this profession. However, stories like James’s are eye-openers. And it doesn’t take looking too far into my own experiences to find a number of instances of gender bias.
When have you experienced gender bias? And tell me about the biases that women heap on men, too. It happens. A lot. We’re all guilty of it in one way or another.
I was once sent to interview the UK CEO of a company I was working for. It was for an article for a staff newsletter I was writing.
This CEO dictated his answers to my questions, complete with punctuation. I very much doubt he'd have treated a male writer like a secretary.
I grin an bore it but I really felt like saying: "By the way, I mastered the use of the comma, ooh, about twenty-five years before I completed my PhD at the University of Cambridge. Just thought you'd like to know."
By the way, that should be "and" in "grin an bore it" – see, I'd have made a terrible secretary!
LOL! Clare, it's okay. Comments aren't edited here. 🙂
Amazing. Just amazing that he condescended to you. I think you're right – that type of person probably wouldn't treat a man the same way. You have more will power than I do – I'd have been tempted to ask him if he'd like to bring in his secretary so we can have a "grown-up" talk.
I have to say that it annoys me when it's a man, but it's worse when it's a woman. Sometimes, Hubby and I will stop to look at some new computers even if I'm not intending to buy.
A saleswoman will come over and start rattling off technical details of a computer while looking straight at my hubby, who knows nothing about them.
Then she'll turn to me and give me some ridiculous statement like, "And you could type letters on it."
Whoa! Hold. me. back. I can type letters on it?! I'll have to buy a couple of them then.
By the way, the verification word for me is "mastr". How cool is that.
I publish under a half a dozen names, and some of them are chosen for gender neutrality or to torque the reader's opinion towards one gender or another.
There's a swing back to huge gender discrimination again, in my opinion, and, again in my opinion, it's because the generation of women after the original standard bearers dropped the ball.
As writers, we have the freedom to play with perception and show people how they make assumptions. It's one of the beauties of the job.
Back in the early 80s, I was one of the first women to be a rock and roll roadie. I had to be twice as strong, twice as tough, and work twice as hard as any of the men to get half the respect.
But I did.
Same experience, Wendy. We were microwave shoppping and husband had questions. Only get this – the salesperson (a woman) answered my husband's questions by addressing ME. I was more fired up about it than he was. It was the assumption that men can't be bothered with appliances and that women do the cooking. The former bothered me more than the latter.
So true, Devon. The path was paved, but women simply expected it to happen – no one bothered to outline the expectations beyond the laws.
Your comment about playing with perception, Devon, is pulling at me. Perhaps women are in the same situation now as then because we're too quick to grasp onto and bellyache about gender discrimination? Victimization isn't coming just from the victimizers – there has to be a victim. If you don't stand for it, that's one less instance.
So the question now becomes what do we do with the knowledge that there's still a gender disparity in the corporate world? We writers, as you mentioned, have the golden opportunity of making hay with this, of shaping opinion, and of presenting the ugly truth and making us all look in that mirror.
Wow.
As a lawyer, the old-boy lawyers plainly treated the new female associates differently.
As a freelancer, however, I can't say I've noticed a difference. But perhaps I haven't been paying attention.
And I never realized two things. My my byline is gender neutral because it's my first and middle initial and last name–G.M. Filisko. But when I send queries to potential new clients, I sign off with my girlie first name.
Because of James' and your posts, I'm now going to do an experiment. When I send queries, I'll stick with the gender-neutral moniker and see if I can detect a difference.
All I can say is wow.
I can only think of one experience (not counting elderly people who asked if I wanted to be a secretary after graduation).
My dad had an appliance repairman in to fix a clunker of a refrigerator when I was in high school or college. Dad was in the kitchen, looming the way he always did when repair people were working. I was in the other room, distracting the puppy from trying to "help" too. I happened to pass by, carrying the puppy, and the guy tells ME, "Next time you clean it…." I said, "It's HIS refrigerator. Tell him."
See, my maternal grandmother was Katharine Hepburn before Katharine Hepburn was Katharine Hepburn. Grandma wore slacks more often than skirts as far back as the 1920s and 1930s. When most of her contemporaries married by 18, Gram married at 26 (her younger sister did one better with a 20-year engagement and married in her 40s). Gram supported herself – at one point she lived and worked for the government in Washington DC (her family was back in Illinois). In later years she always had an old pen gun in her desk, so we like to think she was the Sydney Bristow of her day. That would be the World War One era. (We have rather big generation gaps in my family)
Then again, by age 2 my nephew was saying, "No, silly. BOYS do dishes. Not girls!" So perhaps there is some gender bias still lingering in out family.
About a year ago I had a client I'd been working for a year insisting they meet me and take me to lunch for all the work I'd done for them. I hesitated because it was during the summer and all four of my children were home so I didn't know what to do with them while I was away, and because I didn't know how they would perceive me once they met me and saw me in my hijab. I decided that if they chose not to do business with me after meeting me it was their loss, so I went.
They were visibly surprised when they walked into the restaurant and I came up smiling to greet them (I'm a chronic early-bird). But within minutes we were all laughing, discussing the new direction of their business and having a delicious lunch at one of my favorite Atlanta midtown restaurants. Two years later, I still write for them.
When my husband and I go out together, people often look right past me and speak directly to him. It doesn't really bother me because there are times when I don't feel like being bothered anyway. Make no mistake, I do know how to speak up and be heard, in a dignified manner, when necessary.
I choose not to focus on the things that make me different from others. Worrying about what others may think of me is a distraction I can't be bothered with entertaining.
I'm still shocked and saddened by James/Jamie's revelation. The only gender-related issue I encounter is being addressed as Mr. Meryl Evans (I'm a girl and my photo proves it…). Otherwise, I never encounter gender-related issues, but that's probably because I run into deaf issues first that some see beyond that.
I fear meeting people in person because it shatters the deaf-free image I've set with them online. My deaf accent instantly leads to assumptions that I'm not bright coupled with my not catching everything said in conversation. Fact: Lipreaders catch an average of one-third of what's said in conversation.
Sometimes I wonder if I should abandon in person meetings altogether to avoid messing with my "like everyone else" image from communicating online without barriers.
Meryl, I had no idea! All this time, I thought you were a guy… ;))
I'm sure you get all sorts of odd treatment, and I can't imagine how you'd deal with people who just don't know better than to treat you like, oh, I don't know, a HUMAN. It sucks that you feel inclined to avoid face-to-face. A damn sin, that is.
Kim, I bet you get all sorts of odd remarks and reactions! I don't know why, in this multi-cultural world we live in, that we still act shocked when we meet people.
How's this for weird – I'd communicated with a PR rep a while ago. Not sure to this day if it was a male or female. But I'd typed something funny and he/she responded with a little joke. I added a little joke in response. The next note – well, I don't care if it was a female, it was inappropriate. He/she wrote back with a sexist joke (body parts included) and it wasn't just unfunny, it was offensive. You guys know me – I can give it as much as I can take it, but this was someone I'd never met and had shared exactly four quick emails with.
I tell this because my first reaction was to assume the gender-neutral name of the sender had to be a male due to the crassness of the joke. But then I thought more about it (read that "stewed") and I thought just maybe it was a woman thinking it was okay to "go there."
I'm just as guilty, aren't I?
I can't say that I've seen gender discrimination in my freelancing work, but I've seen blatant gender discrimination elsewhere online. I am somewhat of a theology junkie, and participate in online theology discussion boards. On many of them, you are treated with far more respect if you use a male name vs a female. A few of my fellow kindred spirits and I have actually experimented with this quite a bit and it's quite telling. On one blog, if you post as a woman and disagree with the blog owner, you're pretty much told to shut up; if you make a good counterpoint and support it well, you are banned for "heresy." If you do the same as a man, you'll get the courtesy of a dialog. It's not just a few isolated cases; this happens a LOT.
Oy. I found the same gender discrimination in an online sportfishing forum, too. Eventually, though, they all met me & fished with me & most of it went away. Until someone new came along who didn't know me. Hell, I *ran* the damn forums & they learned not to mess w/ me. But the bias was still there underneath things. It's so hard to get people to change.
Other forums were so blatantly sexist that I just can't even stand to go to them. I can tell a raunchy joke & cuss with the best of them, but as I get older, I get tired of hearing things like "Put down your purse & pull on that fish like you have a set!" and other examples involving our biology that are probably a little too vulgar to go into here. I'm kinda tired of being expected to grin & bear it.
becky, as someone who loves to fish, I'm ticked off to hear that attitude exists. I can attest to it – when I tell people (male or female) of my fishing exploits, the reaction is the same – YOU fish? What? That requires testosterone to do well?
Eileen, that's a VERY interesting situation! Funny how we're assertive and we're called bitches. Men are assertive and they're called up for promotion. I've had commenters on various posts, especially ones in which content mills are involved, condescend to me. It's just ridiculous. It's as though there's this perception that we're unworthy of respect or that what we have to say has any weight to it.
Has anyone else read "You Just Don't Understand" by Deborah Tannen? She goes into reasons why this could be happening, and it's a fascinating read.
when I temped in corporate situations, the blatant discrimination was disgusting.
Some of it exists backstage, but a lot less than in other places — except from producers and money men — emphases on MEN.
I was told more than once, when I stood up to a producer on an issue (especially as a union negotiator), that I was a bitch (when the same words spoken by a man were praised). My response, "As a matter of fact I am, and I'm proud of it. Good bloodlines, you know."
when I was in Australia a few years ago, we went to a sheep-shearing. The farmer told us he only used female dogs to herd and do the serious work, because they learned faster and could hold the concentration longer.
The male dogs were kept around just to breed! 😉
Sort of a metaphor — on a show, if there's real work to be done or a real problem to be solved, it always gets done by the wardrobe dept. And Props will always try to take the credit. 😉
I had one experience with discrimination, and it's a doozy.
About a year ago, I took a position as a Policy Analyst with a local non-profit organization. The Executive Director, Teddy, who didn't look a day older than twelve, constantly voiced how liberal he was. Ironically, one day he looked at me and said:
"We get money for hiring people like you."
"People like me?" I replied, confused.
"Yeah, since you're Hispanic we get additional funding. The fact that you’re a woman is an added bonus. HeHeHe."
As I sat staring at him with my mouth gaping open, I asked…"Did you hire me because I'm Hispanic?"
He replied, "That's funny," but never answered my question.
At the time, I dismissed the comment as the ill thought musings of a kid who lacked experience.
Six months later, while talking to a guy from another organization about Spain, Teddy approached us and said: "We get money for hiring Hispanics like her."
For a moment, I felt like some moronic token who had nothing to bring to the table but race. Then, if Teddy's comments were not enough, another girl chimed in, "Yeah, we have one of those too, her name is —- Agular."
Now, let's set aside the fact that I have a Master's degree in public policy from a program that is nationally ranked in the top 10 percent, I had to wonder if Teddy ever considered my background when he hired me.
Since I was in the throws of writing an extensive legislative policy that could potentially help thousands of low-income West Virginians, I held my tongue.
Later that day, I discussed my feelings with a co-worker who was a dead ringer for McFly from Back To The Future. He suggested that Teddy deserved to know how I felt, otherwise, how could I expect my boss to change his behavior? I thought his advice was prudent and took it. Oh yeah, and I forgot to add that although McFly held the exact same title as me, his salary was $10k higher than mine.
A few days later, after I'd taken some time to think and cool down, I approached Teddy and explained that his comment made me feel like I was not selected for my position based on merit, but race. His face turned beet red, then he pushed the chair away from his desk with his foot and yelled, "OH MY GOD! IT WAS A JOKE! GET THE HELL OVER IT! I HAVE LOTS OF FRIENDS WHO ARE HISPANIC AND BLACK. SO IF YOU'RE TRYING TO IMPLY THAT I'M A BIGOT, THEN YOU CAN JUST LEAVE!"
Needless to say, I completed my project and quit three months later.
I was employed by the Federal Bureau of Prisons for ten years, and was a social worker for two. In all that time, I never had any problems at work. In ten months, Teddy took me to a place I never thought I'd see myself in. I was a disgruntled employee.
After my awful experience with Teddy, I decided to write a novel and do some freelance writing. Essentially, I think being my own boss is the way to go.
Lori, it is SO BAD in longrange sportfishing. BAD. I loved to fish, but eventually I just got tired of dealing with it. I didn't want to spend my money to hear complaints about women being on the boats. HOWEVER, the captains loved having women, because we tended to listen better & follow their advice. Many of the men thought they were gifted fishermen and didn't need any help/advice. Guess how many of those people I outfished most of the time? 🙂
Devon, your experiences are exactly what I've experienced in corporations. Not all, but it's surprising how often it happens.
Along those same lines, the termite inspector showed up here yesterday. He did a good job addressing both of us, but when he said, "And if you see any bugs, don't clean them up until we've seen them", he looked at me. I shrugged, looked confused, then he (wisely) turned to my husband and repeated it. Don't assume the neat freak in the house is me – you'll be sorely disappointed!
Andrea, what you experienced was a hostile work environment, and yes, discrimination. I'd have filed a suit on that jerk. His callous remarks in front of others are uncalled for, demean you, and strip away any chance of being treated fairly. That guy needed to be called on the carpet for it. Joke? Is he serious? He thinks that's an appropriate JOKE? I'd have shredded him – first through HR, second through a state-based lawsuit. There's no room in ANY company for that kind of behavior.
Becky, I have no doubt you outfished them. ;)) What is the objection these men have? It reminds me of the behavior of one guy when I was donating blood. The blood mobile showed up at our meditation retreat. We're all vegetarians. This jerk, as he's taking blood from my arm, said, "Yea, I'm going out after this and getting a big, juicy, STEAK. And after that, I'm going to BURGER KING."
I told him to have fun. Jerk.
Oh, here's one. My husband often took our son to the allergist. The doctor was cold towards my husband and asked where his wife was.
What? Dads can't explain their children's problems?
When I took my son, the doctor was nice to me.
I know plenty of dads who take on the stereotypical role of Dad — no bathing, no diaper changes, etc. etc. But many more do it all or at least, a good bit.
Can't we judge each other for our brains and conversation instead of what came with our birthday suit?
Let's hope so, Meryl. There are plenty of men and women who do it right – gender be damned, talent first. But there are still too many instances of it for my taste.
This isn't work related, but Meryl's last comment reminded me of a recent comment made my a female acquaintance: she gets 'creeped out' whenever she sees a man in public with a child. Her words were along the lines of: "I mean, you just can't help but suspect something's weird, right?"
Um, no. What's weird is to assume that man + child = pedophile. Also very weird to think that only women are capable of loving and nurturing a child. However, there is still a common gender bias that a mother's love is like no other.
Women can be bad at parenting, just as men can be spectacular at it.
Absolutely true, Carrie. Why would she get creeped out over that? I would think "That kid's got a great dad." It's too bad there gender biases – on both sides – still exist. Pointless.