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	Comments on: The Freelancer and The Ethical Boundary	</title>
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		<title>
		By: lwidmer		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17306</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lwidmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2018 19:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsonpageblog.com/?p=6408#comment-17306</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17302&quot;&gt;Anne Wayman&lt;/a&gt;.

Wow, that&#039;s really odd, Anne. You&#039;d think after the second &#039;no&#039; she&#039;d understand it was really no. Maybe she thought if she wore you down, she&#039;d get what she wanted? I&#039;ve seen a few people in my life who are like that -- if you keep insisting, eventually they&#039;ll do it to shut you up. I don&#039;t understand it. 

It&#039;s a little like a few younger women I encountered at a busy lunch place in the city. We were all standing waiting for tables to clear. When one did, I sat down. Not one, but two women under the age of 40 came over and said to me &quot;We were going to sit here.&quot; As if saying so, I&#039;d get up and let them because they announced it? I wanted to announce &quot;I AM going to sit here&quot; but sometimes you&#039;re just better off not playing the head games with them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17302">Anne Wayman</a>.</p>
<p>Wow, that&#8217;s really odd, Anne. You&#8217;d think after the second &#8216;no&#8217; she&#8217;d understand it was really no. Maybe she thought if she wore you down, she&#8217;d get what she wanted? I&#8217;ve seen a few people in my life who are like that &#8212; if you keep insisting, eventually they&#8217;ll do it to shut you up. I don&#8217;t understand it. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a little like a few younger women I encountered at a busy lunch place in the city. We were all standing waiting for tables to clear. When one did, I sat down. Not one, but two women under the age of 40 came over and said to me &#8220;We were going to sit here.&#8221; As if saying so, I&#8217;d get up and let them because they announced it? I wanted to announce &#8220;I AM going to sit here&#8221; but sometimes you&#8217;re just better off not playing the head games with them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: lwidmer		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17305</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lwidmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2018 18:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsonpageblog.com/?p=6408#comment-17305</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17304&quot;&gt;Jenn mattern&lt;/a&gt;.

Right on point, Jenn. I was not an employee. A contractor isn&#039;t limited to working for one client. There would be no point to being a freelancer, would there?

I still shake my head over the editor&#039;s reaction even now. It&#039;s just unfathomable that an editor wouldn&#039;t know that it isn&#039;t within their control. Even if it had been the same story -- and it clearly wasn&#039;t -- I&#039;m allowed to use the same idea elsewhere as long as it&#039;s different and I&#039;ve not breached any contract.

Good grief, it was a profile! And that is nothing like the original article, which was about buying a specific product.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17304">Jenn mattern</a>.</p>
<p>Right on point, Jenn. I was not an employee. A contractor isn&#8217;t limited to working for one client. There would be no point to being a freelancer, would there?</p>
<p>I still shake my head over the editor&#8217;s reaction even now. It&#8217;s just unfathomable that an editor wouldn&#8217;t know that it isn&#8217;t within their control. Even if it had been the same story &#8212; and it clearly wasn&#8217;t &#8212; I&#8217;m allowed to use the same idea elsewhere as long as it&#8217;s different and I&#8217;ve not breached any contract.</p>
<p>Good grief, it was a profile! And that is nothing like the original article, which was about buying a specific product.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jenn mattern		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17304</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenn mattern]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2018 15:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsonpageblog.com/?p=6408#comment-17304</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17298&quot;&gt;Paula Hendrickson&lt;/a&gt;.

Exactly. If a client wants that level of control and exclusivity, they can hire an employee and take on the responsibilities that come with those rights (full-time pay, benefits, paid sick/vaca time, their half of the taxes, worker&#039;s comp insurance, etc). Drives me nuts when buyers think they can have it both ways and freelancers should take on all the burdens while giving up most control and choice. Nope!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17298">Paula Hendrickson</a>.</p>
<p>Exactly. If a client wants that level of control and exclusivity, they can hire an employee and take on the responsibilities that come with those rights (full-time pay, benefits, paid sick/vaca time, their half of the taxes, worker&#8217;s comp insurance, etc). Drives me nuts when buyers think they can have it both ways and freelancers should take on all the burdens while giving up most control and choice. Nope!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anne Wayman		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17302</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anne Wayman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2018 15:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsonpageblog.com/?p=6408#comment-17302</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One of my stranger encounters was a gal who said she wanted me to ghost her story into a book... I gave her a price and she insisted she couldn&#039;t pay that much. I think I came down a bit as I often do, and she still said no. So I said thanks but no thanks... 

I don&#039;t know how many times she called again - until I was smart enough not to take her calls. Each time she wanted the price lowered; each time I said &#039;no.&#039; 

Somehow she just couldn&#039;t take no for an answer... why she got &#039;stuck&#039; on me and thought if she called enough I&#039;d cut the price. I don&#039;t know. I really had to stop taking her calls or returning them for her to finally let go.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my stranger encounters was a gal who said she wanted me to ghost her story into a book&#8230; I gave her a price and she insisted she couldn&#8217;t pay that much. I think I came down a bit as I often do, and she still said no. So I said thanks but no thanks&#8230; </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how many times she called again &#8211; until I was smart enough not to take her calls. Each time she wanted the price lowered; each time I said &#8216;no.&#8217; </p>
<p>Somehow she just couldn&#8217;t take no for an answer&#8230; why she got &#8216;stuck&#8217; on me and thought if she called enough I&#8217;d cut the price. I don&#8217;t know. I really had to stop taking her calls or returning them for her to finally let go.</p>
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		<title>
		By: lwidmer		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17301</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lwidmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2018 20:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsonpageblog.com/?p=6408#comment-17301</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17300&quot;&gt;Paula Hendrickson&lt;/a&gt;.

Paula, been there, hated that. It&#039;s that type of assignment -- one in which the target keeps moving and the editor isn&#039;t really communicating all that needs to be communicated -- that kills it for me, too.

My guess is someone higher up the food chain didn&#039;t like the sources. Someone else wanted a rewrite (and at the last minute, thank-you-very-much). Either way, she could have salvaged it by saying &quot;Look, I know you and I had agreed to this, but I&#039;m getting pressure from above on this. I really hate to ask as you&#039;ve been easy to work with, but is there any way you could revise this for me this one time?&quot;

Then that woman needed to go to her superiors and stand up for her freelancers. If she mentions that her hands are effectively tied by their back-and-forth, that could open a few eyes. At the very least, she could start running her own decisions by her damn bosses so this doesn&#039;t trickle down to become someone else&#039;s nightmare.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17300">Paula Hendrickson</a>.</p>
<p>Paula, been there, hated that. It&#8217;s that type of assignment &#8212; one in which the target keeps moving and the editor isn&#8217;t really communicating all that needs to be communicated &#8212; that kills it for me, too.</p>
<p>My guess is someone higher up the food chain didn&#8217;t like the sources. Someone else wanted a rewrite (and at the last minute, thank-you-very-much). Either way, she could have salvaged it by saying &#8220;Look, I know you and I had agreed to this, but I&#8217;m getting pressure from above on this. I really hate to ask as you&#8217;ve been easy to work with, but is there any way you could revise this for me this one time?&#8221;</p>
<p>Then that woman needed to go to her superiors and stand up for her freelancers. If she mentions that her hands are effectively tied by their back-and-forth, that could open a few eyes. At the very least, she could start running her own decisions by her damn bosses so this doesn&#8217;t trickle down to become someone else&#8217;s nightmare.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paula Hendrickson		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17300</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paula Hendrickson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2018 17:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsonpageblog.com/?p=6408#comment-17300</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My strangest encounter with an editor was about two years ago. I was working on my first (only) assignment for a magazine I&#039;d been trying to to break into for a long time. The editor assigned me a bullet point type of round up—kind of like a glorified tip list—and gave me about 15 suggestions of what to include in the dozen or so points she requested. She also gave me some potential sources. She said not to be afraid to ask her questions as I worked on it.

I followed her instructions to the letter, asking if certain sources were okay (she said they were fine), and I wrote it up and turned it in early since she said they almost always request rewrites.  About four months later—a day or two before Christmas when I was on my holiday break–she sends me a huge list of changes and says they&#039;re due the second week of January. The worst part? She said three of my sources weren&#039;t good enough so I needed to find three new experts during the holidays (when I wasn&#039;t in the office!) —she&#039;d referred me to one of them and had okayed the other two early on in the writing process. Oh, yeah, she also kept trying to force in a safety tip that The CDC and at least one national association said was not an actual safety concern. I&#039;d explained that to her twice, and she still wanted it included. I reiterated that it was not a real thing. It was about then she said she needed the revision by the end of the first week of January. When I told her that might be difficult, considering a lot of people are out of the office for the holidays, she said, &quot;I thought you said you were a professional. I haven&#039;t had trouble reaching anyone.&quot; (Probably because she hadn&#039;t tried.)

By some miracle I got it revised, sent it in by the new, abbreviated deadline. She replied, &quot;Got it.&quot; Months passed, then I had an email from the magazine&#039;s accounting office asking me to re-send my w9 and invoice (things I&#039;d sent the editor in August). Since they pay on publication I asked which issue it was in. She said, &quot;Oh, this is for a kill fee. Didn&#039;t they tell you?&quot; Nope. Later that day I got a terse email from that editor saying &quot;Sorry. I thought someone told you we killed the article.&quot; 

And she&#039;s the one who dared to question my professionalism!

She offered no explanation. (The magazine was bought out by a new publisher during the lengthy lull, so maybe that was the reason, or maybe the editor&#039;s changes made it unreadable. I&#039;ll never know and frankly don&#039;t care anymore.)

Sure, their state pay rate is $2/word, but the amount of time involved in the research, writing, and re-researching and re-writing probably broke that down to $10/hour or less. So not worth it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My strangest encounter with an editor was about two years ago. I was working on my first (only) assignment for a magazine I&#8217;d been trying to to break into for a long time. The editor assigned me a bullet point type of round up—kind of like a glorified tip list—and gave me about 15 suggestions of what to include in the dozen or so points she requested. She also gave me some potential sources. She said not to be afraid to ask her questions as I worked on it.</p>
<p>I followed her instructions to the letter, asking if certain sources were okay (she said they were fine), and I wrote it up and turned it in early since she said they almost always request rewrites.  About four months later—a day or two before Christmas when I was on my holiday break–she sends me a huge list of changes and says they&#8217;re due the second week of January. The worst part? She said three of my sources weren&#8217;t good enough so I needed to find three new experts during the holidays (when I wasn&#8217;t in the office!) —she&#8217;d referred me to one of them and had okayed the other two early on in the writing process. Oh, yeah, she also kept trying to force in a safety tip that The CDC and at least one national association said was not an actual safety concern. I&#8217;d explained that to her twice, and she still wanted it included. I reiterated that it was not a real thing. It was about then she said she needed the revision by the end of the first week of January. When I told her that might be difficult, considering a lot of people are out of the office for the holidays, she said, &#8220;I thought you said you were a professional. I haven&#8217;t had trouble reaching anyone.&#8221; (Probably because she hadn&#8217;t tried.)</p>
<p>By some miracle I got it revised, sent it in by the new, abbreviated deadline. She replied, &#8220;Got it.&#8221; Months passed, then I had an email from the magazine&#8217;s accounting office asking me to re-send my w9 and invoice (things I&#8217;d sent the editor in August). Since they pay on publication I asked which issue it was in. She said, &#8220;Oh, this is for a kill fee. Didn&#8217;t they tell you?&#8221; Nope. Later that day I got a terse email from that editor saying &#8220;Sorry. I thought someone told you we killed the article.&#8221; </p>
<p>And she&#8217;s the one who dared to question my professionalism!</p>
<p>She offered no explanation. (The magazine was bought out by a new publisher during the lengthy lull, so maybe that was the reason, or maybe the editor&#8217;s changes made it unreadable. I&#8217;ll never know and frankly don&#8217;t care anymore.)</p>
<p>Sure, their state pay rate is $2/word, but the amount of time involved in the research, writing, and re-researching and re-writing probably broke that down to $10/hour or less. So not worth it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: lwidmer		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17299</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lwidmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2018 17:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsonpageblog.com/?p=6408#comment-17299</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17298&quot;&gt;Paula Hendrickson&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you, Paula. In fact, I&#039;ve used some of the same sources for over 17 years now. I know who has the best info on insurance, on risk management, on managed care, on workers&#039; comp... And not one editor beyond this one has ever had a problem with it. Hell, I WAS an editor, and it was never an issue.

I truly think the editor was under some kind of pressure from upper management -- maybe even unreasonable pressure. But biting the hand that feeds you (your freelancers) makes you more of an island than if you&#039;d simply explain calmly what&#039;s going on and ask nicely for help.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17298">Paula Hendrickson</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you, Paula. In fact, I&#8217;ve used some of the same sources for over 17 years now. I know who has the best info on insurance, on risk management, on managed care, on workers&#8217; comp&#8230; And not one editor beyond this one has ever had a problem with it. Hell, I WAS an editor, and it was never an issue.</p>
<p>I truly think the editor was under some kind of pressure from upper management &#8212; maybe even unreasonable pressure. But biting the hand that feeds you (your freelancers) makes you more of an island than if you&#8217;d simply explain calmly what&#8217;s going on and ask nicely for help.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paula Hendrickson		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17298</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paula Hendrickson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2018 17:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsonpageblog.com/?p=6408#comment-17298</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17296&quot;&gt;Jennifer Mattern&lt;/a&gt;.

Not only is it not unethical and not uncommon, all freelancers should seek ways to incorporate their sources into additional projects. It&#039;s smart business sense.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17296">Jennifer Mattern</a>.</p>
<p>Not only is it not unethical and not uncommon, all freelancers should seek ways to incorporate their sources into additional projects. It&#8217;s smart business sense.</p>
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		<title>
		By: lwidmer		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17297</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lwidmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2018 17:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsonpageblog.com/?p=6408#comment-17297</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17296&quot;&gt;Jennifer Mattern&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you, Jenn. You&#039;ve reiterated exactly the issue here. Ideas are not copyrightable for a reason. The editor&#039;s argument that I was acting unethically was based on nothing. No evidence. I wrote an informational piece for that editor and a profile article for another editor. 

Funny, at the time I decided to run the first editor&#039;s complaints by the editor of the trade pub. She couldn&#039;t fathom why anyone would be upset over, as she put it, a commonly accepted practice. 

No signed agreement at all in this case, so the editor had no right whatsoever to complain (she didn&#039;t in the first place, but doubly so for lack of an agreement). All agreements were in email and were about what I&#039;d write, nothing more.

It&#039;s why I get so frustrated when newer or less-experienced writers are facing these same types of people -- ones who fuss over nonexistent issues. The writers may not know enough about contracts and rights to know that they don&#039;t have to placate craziness.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17296">Jennifer Mattern</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you, Jenn. You&#8217;ve reiterated exactly the issue here. Ideas are not copyrightable for a reason. The editor&#8217;s argument that I was acting unethically was based on nothing. No evidence. I wrote an informational piece for that editor and a profile article for another editor. </p>
<p>Funny, at the time I decided to run the first editor&#8217;s complaints by the editor of the trade pub. She couldn&#8217;t fathom why anyone would be upset over, as she put it, a commonly accepted practice. </p>
<p>No signed agreement at all in this case, so the editor had no right whatsoever to complain (she didn&#8217;t in the first place, but doubly so for lack of an agreement). All agreements were in email and were about what I&#8217;d write, nothing more.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s why I get so frustrated when newer or less-experienced writers are facing these same types of people &#8212; ones who fuss over nonexistent issues. The writers may not know enough about contracts and rights to know that they don&#8217;t have to placate craziness.</p>
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		By: Jennifer Mattern		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2018/03/the-freelancers-and-the-ethical-boundary.html#comment-17296</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jennifer Mattern]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2018 13:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsonpageblog.com/?p=6408#comment-17296</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Even if you had written on the same topic elsewhere, she&#039;d be out of bounds unless she bought exclusive rights &#038; you sold the exact same piece, or unless she bought the copyright (which ideally freelancers shouldn&#039;t sell) which stripped your right to create derivative work. Writers are well within their rights to use the same sources &#038; write about the same topics, with a spin for different outlets as long as they retained their copyright. It&#039;s not uncommon. It&#039;s not unethical. And it&#039;s none of the client&#039;s business unless they were sold more rights than they ideally should have been. (If someone wants copyrights, charge several times your usual fee to account for the future limitations it puts on you. Especially if you&#039;re a specialist, you will need to cover the same topics from time to time.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if you had written on the same topic elsewhere, she&#8217;d be out of bounds unless she bought exclusive rights &amp; you sold the exact same piece, or unless she bought the copyright (which ideally freelancers shouldn&#8217;t sell) which stripped your right to create derivative work. Writers are well within their rights to use the same sources &amp; write about the same topics, with a spin for different outlets as long as they retained their copyright. It&#8217;s not uncommon. It&#8217;s not unethical. And it&#8217;s none of the client&#8217;s business unless they were sold more rights than they ideally should have been. (If someone wants copyrights, charge several times your usual fee to account for the future limitations it puts on you. Especially if you&#8217;re a specialist, you will need to cover the same topics from time to time.)</p>
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