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	Comments on: First the Cart, Then the Horse	</title>
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	<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html</link>
	<description>a freelance writing resource.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:00:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Lori		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html#comment-8172</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lori]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loriwidmer.com/wordsonpage/index.php/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html/#comment-8172</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bill, I agree completely. And I think a lot of the kerfluffle is stemming from their feeling of outrage - they may feel duped into helping someone grow a business with nothing in it for them. That&#039;s true. But it was as true at the beginning of the relationship as it is now. So maybe this is seated in embarrassment? I don&#039;t know.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I agree completely. And I think a lot of the kerfluffle is stemming from their feeling of outrage &#8211; they may feel duped into helping someone grow a business with nothing in it for them. That&#39;s true. But it was as true at the beginning of the relationship as it is now. So maybe this is seated in embarrassment? I don&#39;t know.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill Swan		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html#comment-8169</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Swan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 17:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loriwidmer.com/wordsonpage/index.php/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html/#comment-8169</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s a quote from Eleanor Roosevelt - &#034;No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.&#034; In other words, writers who give their time and words away now don&#039;t have the right to demand it later.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#39;s a quote from Eleanor Roosevelt &#8211; &quot;No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.&quot; In other words, writers who give their time and words away now don&#39;t have the right to demand it later.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lori		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html#comment-8139</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lori]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loriwidmer.com/wordsonpage/index.php/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html/#comment-8139</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Exactly, Wendy! They are the PRIME example of understanding your own worth and not letting someone take advantage.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Paula, true. You&#039;d think people would be embarrassed. Alas, the world is full of proud, naive people...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly, Wendy! They are the PRIME example of understanding your own worth and not letting someone take advantage.</p>
<p>Paula, true. You&#39;d think people would be embarrassed. Alas, the world is full of proud, naive people&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wendy		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html#comment-8138</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wendy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loriwidmer.com/wordsonpage/index.php/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html/#comment-8138</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree that they don’t deserve to win any money, since they knew what they were doing when they signed on. They do look like fools and will look like bigger fools if they lose the case. But, I’m still happy to see it, because of the statement that’s been made. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Those that wrote for them, probably never realized that their hard work would get stampeded on like it did with the big sale of the site.  I can see their outrage, but again, it’s something that should’ve been looked at in the beginning . Not after the fact.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Use them as examples for new writers or those who have been around a few years, but are still struggling to make it. Signing up for places like this can have implications that they need to take into consideration before giving the go ahead. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Writer’s Worth day is coming up, isn’t it? This would be a good example to show our worth, don’t you think? LOL.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that they don’t deserve to win any money, since they knew what they were doing when they signed on. They do look like fools and will look like bigger fools if they lose the case. But, I’m still happy to see it, because of the statement that’s been made. </p>
<p>Those that wrote for them, probably never realized that their hard work would get stampeded on like it did with the big sale of the site.  I can see their outrage, but again, it’s something that should’ve been looked at in the beginning . Not after the fact.</p>
<p>Use them as examples for new writers or those who have been around a few years, but are still struggling to make it. Signing up for places like this can have implications that they need to take into consideration before giving the go ahead. </p>
<p>Writer’s Worth day is coming up, isn’t it? This would be a good example to show our worth, don’t you think? LOL.</p>
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		By: Paula		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html#comment-8137</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paula]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2011 00:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loriwidmer.com/wordsonpage/index.php/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html/#comment-8137</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ah but Lori, I&#039;ve run into more than one mill writer who lists the mills on their resumes. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rational people would be embarrassed to admit it, but...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah but Lori, I&#39;ve run into more than one mill writer who lists the mills on their resumes. </p>
<p>Rational people would be embarrassed to admit it, but&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lori		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html#comment-8136</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lori]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loriwidmer.com/wordsonpage/index.php/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html/#comment-8136</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[LOL! I hear you, Gabriella. You sounded really smart, though. :) Thanks for the info - it&#039;ll be interesting to see how it plays out.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Amen, WordVixen, amen! And there is the whole issue. These writers cannot convince anyone that they were unaware the site was making money. Yes, they were offered &#034;exposure&#034; but honestly, who falls for that? People who think they can&#039;t make it on their own?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL! I hear you, Gabriella. You sounded really smart, though. 🙂 Thanks for the info &#8211; it&#39;ll be interesting to see how it plays out.</p>
<p>Amen, WordVixen, amen! And there is the whole issue. These writers cannot convince anyone that they were unaware the site was making money. Yes, they were offered &quot;exposure&quot; but honestly, who falls for that? People who think they can&#39;t make it on their own?</p>
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		<title>
		By: WordVixen		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html#comment-8135</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WordVixen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loriwidmer.com/wordsonpage/index.php/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html/#comment-8135</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#034;and demanding restitution for what they feel was her using them to increase the value of her commodity.&#034; = Duh?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Seriously, what did they think Huffpo was doing? Generously offering a place to showcase their talents out of the goodness of their hearts? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sorry to be a little snarky towards the writers, but this is the problem when someone jumps into a new profession without learning at least a little about all ends of the business. In a business, the top level is always out to maximize profits. While the business model itself changes from industry to industry, it&#039;s always about profits at the top, and the best employees one can get for the least amount of money at the bottom. That doesn&#039;t change just because it&#039;s the internet.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;and demanding restitution for what they feel was her using them to increase the value of her commodity.&quot; = Duh?</p>
<p>Seriously, what did they think Huffpo was doing? Generously offering a place to showcase their talents out of the goodness of their hearts? </p>
<p>Sorry to be a little snarky towards the writers, but this is the problem when someone jumps into a new profession without learning at least a little about all ends of the business. In a business, the top level is always out to maximize profits. While the business model itself changes from industry to industry, it&#39;s always about profits at the top, and the best employees one can get for the least amount of money at the bottom. That doesn&#39;t change just because it&#39;s the internet.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gabriella F.		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html#comment-8134</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gabriella F.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 19:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loriwidmer.com/wordsonpage/index.php/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html/#comment-8134</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree with much of what&#039;s said, but don&#039;t forget that in the law, you can have a claim whether there&#039;s a contract or not.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In this case, the writers&#039; claim might be for unjust enrichment, which essentially means someone is so unjustly enriched by the work of another that it creates an obligation to pay for the services he&#039;s been enriched by.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There&#039;s also a concept of unconscionability, which says the terms of a contract are so unconscionable as to be shocking.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&#039;m guessing the idea of profiting to the tune of $315 million off of unpaid labor might make a claim of unjust enrichment or unconscionability more colorable than most people think.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Not saying either is destined to work, just that there are equitable concepts in the law that may work for these writers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And that, my friends, is about all of the law I can stomach in one day anymore! (Just kidding!)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with much of what&#39;s said, but don&#39;t forget that in the law, you can have a claim whether there&#39;s a contract or not.</p>
<p>In this case, the writers&#39; claim might be for unjust enrichment, which essentially means someone is so unjustly enriched by the work of another that it creates an obligation to pay for the services he&#39;s been enriched by.</p>
<p>There&#39;s also a concept of unconscionability, which says the terms of a contract are so unconscionable as to be shocking.</p>
<p>I&#39;m guessing the idea of profiting to the tune of $315 million off of unpaid labor might make a claim of unjust enrichment or unconscionability more colorable than most people think.</p>
<p>Not saying either is destined to work, just that there are equitable concepts in the law that may work for these writers.</p>
<p>And that, my friends, is about all of the law I can stomach in one day anymore! (Just kidding!)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lori		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html#comment-8133</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lori]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 18:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loriwidmer.com/wordsonpage/index.php/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html/#comment-8133</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Got your comment out of the Spam folder, Hugh. Sorry. Occasionally it demands food. I saw it was very close to what you&#039;d written before, so I went ahead and deleted the repeat. Is that okay?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That&#039;s what I&#039;m not quite aligning with in terms of this lawsuit. She made money prior to selling. She was raking in ad revenue.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got your comment out of the Spam folder, Hugh. Sorry. Occasionally it demands food. I saw it was very close to what you&#39;d written before, so I went ahead and deleted the repeat. Is that okay?</p>
<p>That&#39;s what I&#39;m not quite aligning with in terms of this lawsuit. She made money prior to selling. She was raking in ad revenue.</p>
<p>Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue&#8230;..</p>
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		By: hugh.c.mcbride		</title>
		<link>https://wordsonpageblog.com/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html#comment-8132</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hugh.c.mcbride]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 18:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loriwidmer.com/wordsonpage/index.php/2011/04/first-cart-then-horse.html/#comment-8132</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Just wrote a comment that appears to have been eaten by the Internet Gods, so I&#039;ll try again. (Apologies for the quasi-duplication if the first one suddenly resurfaces):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1) If I&#039;m a carpenter, &#038; I agree to build you a house FOR FREE (in order to put my mad buildin&#039; skillz on display for all the world to see), unless we&#039;ve entered into an EXPLICIT WRITTEN AGREEMENT ahead of time, how can I expect to be entitled to a share of the profits should you decide to sell the house?  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2) We all knew Arianna was making big $$$ before the AOL deal, &#038; we all know she&#039;s making big $$$ now. As far as I can tell, the only difference is that the *amount* of big $$$ is now a matter of public record, at least as it pertains to the AOL deal. Not sure how that justifies a lawsuit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3) Though I agree it would be downright wonderful if this lawsuit suddenly caused the masses to rise up in newfound awareness of the true value of the world&#039;s ink-stained wretches (virtual &#038; actual ink, of course), I&#039;m not as optimistic of that outcome as some here appear to be. To paraphrase the great philosopher Donaldus Rumsfeldius, I expect that the effort to promote writers&#039; worth will remain &#034;a long slog.&#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;4. Not sure what this says about *my* level of sophistication, but I was nodding my head in agreement w/ Jake P&#039;s comment before I got to his &#034;sophisticated sources&#034; -- and then I found my self nodding even more enthusiastically. Looks like I picked the wrong week to start feeling all refined &#038; cultured :-)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wrote a comment that appears to have been eaten by the Internet Gods, so I&#39;ll try again. (Apologies for the quasi-duplication if the first one suddenly resurfaces):</p>
<p>1) If I&#39;m a carpenter, &amp; I agree to build you a house FOR FREE (in order to put my mad buildin&#39; skillz on display for all the world to see), unless we&#39;ve entered into an EXPLICIT WRITTEN AGREEMENT ahead of time, how can I expect to be entitled to a share of the profits should you decide to sell the house?  </p>
<p>2) We all knew Arianna was making big $$$ before the AOL deal, &amp; we all know she&#39;s making big $$$ now. As far as I can tell, the only difference is that the *amount* of big $$$ is now a matter of public record, at least as it pertains to the AOL deal. Not sure how that justifies a lawsuit.</p>
<p>3) Though I agree it would be downright wonderful if this lawsuit suddenly caused the masses to rise up in newfound awareness of the true value of the world&#39;s ink-stained wretches (virtual &amp; actual ink, of course), I&#39;m not as optimistic of that outcome as some here appear to be. To paraphrase the great philosopher Donaldus Rumsfeldius, I expect that the effort to promote writers&#39; worth will remain &quot;a long slog.&quot;</p>
<p>4. Not sure what this says about *my* level of sophistication, but I was nodding my head in agreement w/ Jake P&#39;s comment before I got to his &quot;sophisticated sources&quot; &#8212; and then I found my self nodding even more enthusiastically. Looks like I picked the wrong week to start feeling all refined &amp; cultured 🙂</p>
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