I love Mika Doyle.
Mika is one of those beginning freelance writers who is carving out a career, but doing it the right way. I’ve watched her from the sidelines as she’s built her freelance foundation, and it’s exciting to watch.
Mind you, she’s gone through the same tough cycles and struggles like we all do, but she’s not once compromised her principles to make a buck, particularly when it comes to her earnings.
Mika, Paula and I were having an email discussion a few weeks back about a project Mika had been approached to do. Her response to what turned into an unreasonably low offer is today’s post.
For every writer who’s ever struggled with what to charge, please read and take to heart Mika’s reasoning. It’s exactly the mindset that will be key to your own success.
When A Client Tries To Tell You Your Worth With A Low-Balled Estimate
by Mika Doyle
When a client quotes you their own price for a content project, that’s not usually a good start. It’s like giving a painter a detailed estimate that you put together yourself, essentially telling the painter what you’d like to pay them to paint your house. Pretty absurd, right? I mean, do you know how much that painter’s supplies cost, how much experience they have, how quickly they can get the job done, or how challenging your paint-job is?
A client basically said they knew all that about me when they quoted their own price for my content consulting services. This was a client I’ve worked with before, and their request for my consulting services came after I turned in my first few assignments for them. They claimed they were immensely impressed with how quickly I learned their industry and produced pieces that accurately reflected the voice of their company. They wanted my help with their content strategy because they said I asked questions their other writers didn’t, and they said they valued my expertise.
Flattery, huh? I’m listening. It sounded great, until they tried to send me documents to look at before we talked payment. “Why don’t I send you a few things you can take a look at for me?” they said during a phone call.
No, no, no, no. I’m not falling for that. I told them to hold off on sending me anything until we worked out the financials first. They came at me with more flattery, telling me that’s what they liked about me — that I was so up front and clear. Uh huh.
We agreed they’d send me bullet points prioritizing exactly what tasks they were looking for in consulting services, including the number and length of phone calls, so I could put together two estimates for them that they could choose from. I emailed them after our phone call to recap our conversation so everything was clear, but after two weeks and a follow-up, they still hadn’t sent those bullet points.
After my second follow-up, the client filled out my creative brief form instead of sending the bullet points. If you’re not familiar with a creative brief, it’s used to hash out the details of a creative project that has already been assigned, not define the financial parameters of an estimate. This client is a marketing professional, so they should know the difference. I tactfully thanked them for providing some details in the creative brief but reminded them of our phone discussion by re-sending them the initial recap email.
What I got back from them was their own version of an estimate for what they wanted to pay for my consulting services:
Ala carte:
- Content Analysis & Recommendation Report:
- $200 initial review
- $25 per hour post-review
- Phone Calls:
- $15/30 minutes
- $40/hour
- Proofreading:
- $75 per 500-word piece/article
Retainer:
- $500/month for up to 20 hours/month including but not limited to:
- Phone consultations
- Scope review and analysis
- Proofreading
- Over 20 hours completed in a month? [their question mark; not mine]
- Additional $50/hour
In the words of Lori Widmer, who I showed this estimate, “Oooooh, honey…”
Note that some of these rates dip down to the minimum wage in some states, while the rest aren’t even remotely comparable to professional rates. A college student or recent college grad might work for these rates, but not a professional. Proposing these rates said a lot about what this client thought about my worth, no matter how much they tried to flatter me.
Sadly, I shouldn’t have been as shocked as I was that they pitched these numbers to me. When I sent my first estimate their way, they had the gall to ask me if my rates “fluctuated” as I got better at writing for my clients. I told them that would be like their employer paying them less as they go better at marketing their company. Not surprisingly, they chose the cheapest option I estimated for them.
I wanted to tell this client to f*ck off, but they still owed me money for the last project I did for them (which they almost didn’t pay). So I explained that these rates are exceptionally lower than my normal rates but that I’d be happy to offer a slight discount since we had such a good relationship. I pitched them that amount and haven’t heard from them since.
Can’t say I’m all that sad. After all, I’m worth every damn penny.
Writers, have you ever thought about why your speed and familiarity with a certain project area is actually worth more?
What unique skills do you have that allow you to charge a higher rate?
How would you handle a client like this?
21 responses to “Guest Post: When Clients Try to Set Your Freelance Writing Worth”
It never fails to shock me just how little some people value what writers and editors – and consultants – bring to the table. I’m glad you stood your ground, Mika.
I also noticed that they’re willing to pay you more, per hour, for phone calls than for doing the actual work. Seriously? That doesn’t even make sense. It should be the exact opposite.
One thing is obvious: their lag time in responding means they’re fishing around for other writers who might agree to those rates. If they do, they’ll soon realize the old adage is true: you get what you pay for.
I’ve noticed more and more clients have been telling me “we pay other writers xyz…,” so we’re not paying that rate, which is making it harder and harder for me to get paid what I’m worth. I keep having to walk away from jobs because other writers are willing to take lower pay. I wish more writers would stand their ground and demand better pay.
Very true, but those clients are probably the same ones who five years ago thought content mills were a good and “affordable” way of doing business. As bad as the rates this client offered, at least they weren’t mill rates. It will take a while for the mill mentality to lift. Graphic designers went through a similar thing when everyone thought desktop publishing was better than paying skilled designers. Sometimes there’s a steeper learning curve.
The more writers like you who challenge low rates like those, the sooner they’ll learn.
Mika, thank you again. Great post!
What strikes me in all this is that list — “Here’s what you’re charging/being paid” — with absolutely no input from you. It’s presumptuous at best (they could be really new at this) and insulting at worst (you are NOT an employee).
It’s okay for them to ask YOU for this list, but it’s pretty awful for them to send it to you without you requesting it. I mean, would you send that same kind of list of charges to a kitchen remodeler? Would you expect the roofing company to abide by your itemized list of supply charges and worse, what you’ll pay them to do each little thing?
You said this to Paula: “I’ve noticed more and more clients have been telling me “we pay other writers xyz…,” so we’re not paying that rate, which is making it harder and harder for me to get paid what I’m worth. ”
Fish in a different pond. These are bottom-feeders. Aim higher. If you’re finding them on job lists, that’s feeding into their thinking that they call ALL the shots, including payment. If you’re being referred, lose that referral! Go for a company you’ve looked into that seems to understand that good things come with a price tag.
These are all companies that have approached me or I’ve aimed for. I don’t do job listings for that very reason. I’m fishing in the ponds I want but aren’t catching the the big fish.
Yes, fish in a different pond, as Lori suggested. I also would point out that you didn’t follow your first instinct to dump them… I probably would have also given them another ‘chance’ but I can’t, come to think of it, think of a time when ignoring my intuition paid off. Glad they didn’t snare you… none of us need clients like that.!
This felt very much like an abusive relationship does. I got the confusing back and forth of the abuse with the flattery and flowers that made me feel comfortable enough to keep moving forward.
What an apt comparison! (You might want to do a blog post about that, too.)
Pardon my confusion. Were you doing only proofreading? I didn’t see a quote for writing. Not sure if I missed anything. Since I don’t know your standard rates, I’m not sure what you consider minimum wage. Being the slowest writer in the West, I’d be happy at $20+ per hour. But please don’t think I’m minimizing your worth. Just trying to make sense of what I charge.
Hi Gina! I can’t speak for what Mika’s project scope was, but I felt the rate they quoted was far too low. I’m seeing this:
They’re assuming the $25/hour for proofing (which in my opinion is too low) is all she’s doing while at the same time noting they’ll need phone calls, article reviews ….
For me, the larger issue is the way they took it upon themselves to set her rates for her. Who does that? If I had a house painter, for example, I would never start the conversation by telling that painter what he or she is going to charge me. Nor should any client dictate our rates to us.
Plus, this is a marketing firm. They’re easily making $250/hr. or better for their own work. And they should know better than to dictate what their contractors will pay.
Thank you. I see what you’re saying — but anymore how do we know the level of experience of the client rep doing the negotiating? There is so much turnover and chaos anymore it seems everywhere. I do realize writers are vastly underrated, so I’m not being entirely naive. But could it be the person doing the negotiating was inexperienced? Just a thought. Believe me, I’m on the writers’ side.
That’s an interesting question, Gina.
I don’t think it matters one iota to us whether that person negotiating has experience or not. Our rate is our rate. Yes, there are clients who need to come up to speed with how to work with freelancers, and this could be the case here.
Still, there comes a point when it passes beyond inexperience and straight to insult. This is an established company, I assume. I also assume they set their own rates. To set the rates of another professional, to me, is crossing the line. Even if that client had said they’d pay Mika $3,000 a month, that’s not for them to say. It’s for them to say “What’s your rate?” and to negotiate from that point.
Oh, I know you’re on the writer’s side! No worries there. Thanks for your questions.
Hi, Gina,
This estimate was for content consulting services, so I’m actually surprised the client threw in proofing. The client wanted to tap into my expertise to strengthen their content strategy, so they wanted me to review their current content plan and offer my recommendations for whether they were on the right track and if/how they should improve their strategy. Why that included proofing, I really don’t know. And as Lori noted, any agency would charge anywhere from $125 to upwards of $250/hour for that kind of service.
You’re better off without them, Mika, though I do hope you get paid what you’re owed. I sometimes have that experience (never hearing from them after I tell them what my writing is worth). There are some who want to argue, but it’s very liberating to say no to lowball offers. 😀 Good for you for standing your ground!
I needed this today. In the industry I work in (educational assessment) the client actually does typically set the rates, I think because they often have large teams of writers working on a project. Just this past week I had not one but two potential clients get in touch with me to discuss a project. They both seemed dodgy about the rates, which is always a bad sign. In the end one finally gave me a rate sheet offering rates one-half to one-quarter of what I usually charge, but AFTER I’d spent a couple of hours on the phone and reviewing materials. The other stated a rate that at first glance seemed fair, but then proceeded to tell me about the very involved pitching/revising/review process. Two dead ends in a week! Thank god for good relationships with ongoing clients!! I always feel a bit bad bringing financial up first thing, but I’m reassured other writers feel it makes a lot of sense.
I follow another site that posts stories about difficult clients, but they are mostly from designers, computer tech people. One posted about how he fixed someone’s computer in a short time and charged more than $100. The customer was furious because it only took him a few minutes, but the expert (correctly) pointed out that it would have taken the customer forever to try to do it on his own. I think there are definitely some parallels with the writing world. Freelancers don’t get to become experts in a specific area over night, so the client should recognize they are paying you for not just the time it takes to do a task, but the work that went into learning how to do it efficiently. Hopefully that makes sense.
Great post!
A customer was furious to be charged over $100 for something that would have taken them all day if not longer? That’s a foolish customer. The value is often in the skills and speed of the specialist, I say.
I’ve had similar dead ends, KO. I try to limit the calls to an hour tops, but it doesn’t always work that way. On a project long ago, I remember one guy who was a talker — he would not stop even when I was clearly trying to get off the phone. So the next time we talked, I told him we had exactly 10 minutes before my next call. He said “That’s not enough time!”
But guess who was off the phone in under eight minutes? Funny how those parameters made him stick to the damn point.
I’m so glad to hear this was helpful, Ko. And I agree; just like any other field, writers don’t become experts overnight, and they deserve to be compensated for their expertise just like people from any other industry.
Way to stand up for yourself, Mika. Even with 30+ years experience in my niche, it took me years to get comfortable saying no. It is so liberating to walk away from the low-ballers (or projects I simply don’t want to take on).
I’m with Anne. Every time I go against my gut, it backfires. Paula’s right, there are so many who do not get the value an experienced writer or editor brings to a project. I cringe every time I see a promotion of bidding sites.
Us writers must have good intuition! I feel the same about trusting my gut. Even if there is nothing specific I can pinpoint sometimes I just get an off feeling about a client or a project, and each time I’ve proceeded the results haven’t been good…
Thanks, Cathy. Lori’s Writer’s Worth content has been instrumental in teaching me how to stand up for myself as a writer.
And here you are inspiring others yourself, Mika. 🙂