Now I’m ticked. There are a few places in my online world where I think I’m safe from the crap offers, the low-balling freelance rates (and nonpaying posts), and writers competing to do a thankless job for exposure. Can I vomit now? It’s just creeped in to my LinkedIn experience.
It was a post in the Answers section of the site, but wasn’t a question to be answered – rather, a lousy job that paid nothing veiled as some ultimate opportunity to get recognition nationally. I will say there wasn’t a mob of freelancers lining up to take this “job” that guaranteed exposure to millions. The bottom line of this “huge opportunity” was stated thus:
1. Become a JV partner and write articles for our publication(s) in exchange for massive branding and sales opportunity. Most of our JV writers have products or services they promote and are making excellent revenue from the exposure we provide for them.
2. Become a ‘paid’ freelance writer and get paid by article that is accepted. We do have several writers on board now on a JV basis so we’re only accepting the best-of-best finance writers for freelance work.
First off, this poster doesn’t explain anywhere what the devil “JV” means, but I can only assume nothing good. Junior Varsity? Juicy Vendors? Jacked-up Vagabonds? What?
Of the five people who answered, two were obviously on to this poster and let him/her know that any jobs they do would cost this person real money. But a few actually said, “Yes, I’m interested.” Uh, are you serious?
I expect more from people at LinkedIn. These are serious professionals, or so they portray themselves. They’re beyond taking such offers or even answering to them in any positive way. Yet there were those few who suggested they’d be willing to talk.
Worse is that someone on LinkedIn had the audacity to post such crap. I answered, but to pose questions as to the payment and the poster’s motives in posting a job ad in the Answers section.
Has our industry really gone this far down the toilet? Is it now more common to see this crap than to see legitimate work? Where do people get off thinking they require top payment for their services, but won’t fork over a fair price for the work of others?
16 responses to “The Denegration of Freelance Writing”
JV = joint venture. 🙂
Ah, that explains it. And that pisses me off even more. What a load of crap this “job” offer turned out to be! I’m livid. Can you tell? 🙂
I’m commenting here anonymously because I have (freelance) ties to Agora, the company posting on Linked In. The JV is a very successful business model, and is legit – Agora gets already successful business people to JV with them and it works well. I question why they would be fishing over on LI for more JV partners, though; there are better ways to go about it.
As for paying freelancers for articles – they are a $200 million company, and should not be low-balling it. I would be curious to see what they are actually willing to pay. Plus, AWAI (of the “Six Figure Copywriting” course fame) was started by people tied to Agora. AWAI touts all the time how much money you can make as a writer – so I would expect them to have integrity and pay their writers very well.
This is disturbing. *sigh*
I cannot even count how many insulting offers I’ve had over the past few weeks. Sure, budgets are tight. But does that mean common sense has run dry as well?
Lately I’ve had replies to my applications and come across “job” postings that avoid the issue of payment altogether. I’ll get a “you’re hired!” email, then when I reply with questions about payment I get a really vague, fishy response, if I get one at all. Do I really seem that dumb?
Anonymous said…
“I’m commenting here anonymously because I have (freelance) ties to Agora…”
And are ashamed of it?
They get off doing this because they can; there are too many wanna-bes who are willing to work for nothing.
I’ve said it before — and gotten scolded — and I’ll say it again — you get what you pay for.
And for those who get defensive about lowering their rates, hey, you want to be so overburdened you never get out from under the workload that doesn’t even pay the bills AND get the reputation as cheap labor, go ahead.
There’s decent paying work out there. You just have to be pro-active.
Devon, you will never hear me scold you for it. You DO get what you pay for. You pay peanuts, you’re left with shells.
Anonymous, thank you for responding. I respect your need to stay private, and I appreciate the inside information on this particular company. What gets me is IF this is the same company, which you have implied it may well be, why the posting that’s obviously not going to pay anything?
They’re hoping you’re that dumb, Amanda. The only thing we can do as an industry is educate the ranks and empower other writers to charge what they’re worth. I used to think the fools taking low-ball offers weren’t my problem. In fact, they’re everyone’s problem, for it’s killing our profession.
Lori, I realize my comment probably sounded snide, but what I don’t understand is why Anonymous needs to stay private. Perhaps if s/he had said “because I have ties to Agora and there is a confidentiality agreement,” or something like that, I would understand. But if they are posting that the JV works and they are happy with it, wouldn’t leaving a name benefit them by giving more weight to your comment? So I can’t think why Anonymous wouldn’t want their name known, other than not wanting anyone to know they have ties with the company.
That should have read, “by giving more weight to their comment.” Gah.
No, didn’t read as snide, Katharine. It reads as a question. 🙂
In my affiliations with Agora, it’s been a beneficial relationship, and I’d prefer to remain anonymous so that I don’t jeopardize it with my criticism. What I’m critical of is their low-balling (or non-existent? or lack of transparency on?) pay for article writers. I’m also pointing out that since they birthed AWAI, they should act with integrity when it comes to writers’ pay, but it doesn’t seem to be the case here.
Lori, I’m glad to hear it. :o)
Anonymous, that makes sense. I didn’t think your comment came off as critical, which is why I was confused. I read it as though you were saying that you didn’t know what they paid, but that it should be decent considering their status — I didn’t realize you were criticizing them for low-balling.
In any case, I’m glad your relationship with them has been beneficial, and I totally understand that you would want to protect that.
I’m assuming, Anon, that you know the post I’m talking about on LinkedIn.
What’s been your experience with the company? Good? Questionable? How long -approximately – have you been working with them, and have the been fair the entire time?
It does seem odd that they are posting this kind of stuff given your input and prior experience.
I don’t go for any arrangement in which the amount I’m to receive is questionable. A JV arrangement doesn’t suit me because hey, I can’t partner with my utility company to pay my bills. It’s not a model I can live with. And I’m not sure how the JV model would work for freelancers in general – do you have experience there? What’s a typical JV entail, and what can a writer expect in terms of payment?
Lori, I do know the post you’re referring to on LI. Did you notice it’s now closed? I loved your reply! Measured and courteous, but you got the point across. I have not worked directly with/for Agora, but my clients and some good colleagues have. I’ve written copy in regard to that affiliation. I understand their marketing model pretty well, and my name might be recognized by some of the folks there.
I’m really confused as to why Agora is fishing on Linked In for JV partners. Typically their JV’ers are established names in their respective fields (personal
finance, health, self-improvement) who have an info product to sell, like CD seminars, books, newsletters, etc. People like Robert Ringer, Brian Tracy, Dr. Al Sears, etc. When you do have an info product to sell, a JV is usually a 50-50 split on the profits. Agora provides the list, and you provide the product. We as freelancer writers are not the kind of JV-er they are looking for, unless we’re someone with big name recognition like Bob Bly who has info products to sell.
The freelancers for article writing and the JV-ers are really two totally different things. Sounds to me like they want to beef up the content on their soon-to-launch financial website. I’m assuming the JV-ers will provide much of this content for free in return for promotional exposure. Reading between the lines, they also want more content written by freelancers who are not JV-ing, and they will pay for these articles. The big question is how much, since they seem to be dangling the “exposure” carrot as well.
HTH.
I LOVE that you’re willing to post all this, Anon. It’s very helpful to see the full measure of this JV deal, and maybe try to understand what the company’s up to with the posting in LinkedIn.
I did see it was gone. I reported it. That’s no place for it, nor is it appropriate for that site. I’m of the opinion that a little legwork is in order by Agora – contact specific experts directly and offer them the JV deal.
Perhaps they have a new business model for this new site you mention? At any rate, it didn’t sound too promising for freelancers.
Liked that response, eh? :)) I’m practiced at tact when I need to be tactful. I hate pile-ons, and I won’t be the start of one, but the dude needed to understand that his audience, and approach, was all wrong.